Reader Question- Should Women Submit?

Last night at Bible study, we started talking about women, submission, original sin, etc. The big section called into question was 1 Timothy 2:11-15. Could you shed some light on these verses and what they mean for women AND men? Do women have to get married/have kids to be redeemed (this doesn't make sense)?  -Kya

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Kya, thanks for writing in. I have to admit, I have been dodging this question in my queue for about a week. My answer is no, but nailing down WHY exactly my answer is no in a manner that didn't just boil down to "because I said so" took a bit of work.

In a previous question I addressed the issue of female leadership, and came out fairly strongly in favor of it. Now, there are several issues where the Biblical record is mixed, and this is certainly one of them. The text that you mention here is the strongest Biblical Indictment against female leadership (or even participation) in church life. That's kind of a big deal, so here is the complete text, from the NRSV translation, which is the one I use the most often.

1 Timothy 2:11-15
"Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and holiness, with modesty."

To some, this is an open and shut case... women cannot speak in church, which makes the leadership thing kind of difficult. If we are going to follow the Biblical record, doesn't this end the conversation? Aren't we left to choose between either forcing women out of leadership (to focus on childbearing, no less) or to abandon the Bible?

My answer is no. (You probably guessed that.) I don't think, based on the Biblical record, that this text ends the debate in favor of women silenced. I think it serves, finally, as a reminder that even our great leaders can get it wrong, from time to time.

Notice the language that Paul uses in the passage. He is informing Timothy, (his successor in leadership of the early church) of how he does things, and why. Paul is pretty good throughout his letters of owning when something he does is his own call, as opposed to what he sees as a command from God. Paul read the Bible and came to a conclusion, that is why he does things a certain way. His leadership decisions are based on discernment and scholarship.

And as it happens, I think his scholarship is wrong.

Pretty egregiously so, in fact. He is referring, here, to the tale of the Fall in Genesis, which can be found in Genesis 3:1-7. Here is the text.

"Now the serpent was more crafty than any other wild animal that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, ‘Did God say, “You shall not eat from any tree in the garden”?’ The woman said to the serpent, ‘We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden; but God said, “You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, nor shall you touch it, or you shall die.” ’ But the serpent said to the woman, ‘You will not die; for God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.’ So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made loincloths for themselves."

As you can, see, yes, the serpent is talking to Eve, and does, in fact, deceive her in a manner of speaking. But the text also says quite clearly that Adam was with her. So to read this text and come to the conclusion that Adam wasn't deceived, you have to assume that either A) he is deaf or B) he has the attention span of a gnat. As for the "Adam came first," reasoning, that's like saying the first person to be nominated to be President should always be the one who gets elected. Maybe it made sense to Paul, but it sure doesn't make any sense to me. Of course, women needed SOME role. So, babies? Sure, why not? There isn't even a Biblical argument for it, just a statement. It's actually pretty hard to figure out where this is coming from with Paul, as in another letter, he makes the case that there IS no distinction between male and female when it comes to redemption. (Galatians 3:28)

So I disagree with Paul, as it seems he himself does, as well, but I can hear some of my friends simply asking why I insist on the Biblical record at all, in light of this text. Isn't this a clear example of the Bible getting something wrong? 

Well, no. Because that IS how Paul felt on the subject. He gave his advice, but he also said why he gave his advice, and using his methodology, I chose to go another way. There are plenty of voices in the Bible I disagree with, in fact, it is impossible to agree with all voices in the Bible simultaneously. It is full of different viewpoints and perspectives, and does not permit the honest reader to simply conform.

If you are going to do real Biblical scholarship, you HAVE to think. You have to weigh the different voices and find the way between them. You have to recognize the many women who played pivotal leadership roles in the history of God's people and recognize that here, Paul got it wrong. It was even good enough to show us how and why he got it wrong. This actually should have been a layup for the church... instead, we got it wrong right along with him, except where amazing women made themselves impossible to ignore, and eventually paved the way for more to follow in their footsteps.

What these verses mean for men and women is that sometimes, even our great leaders (like Paul) can get it very, very wrong. You can never just let someone tell you what the truth is, you have to weigh it for yourself. At least Paul was good enough to give us a Bibliography that made it easy to see where faulty scholarship was at fault, other pastors or teachers might just say: "here is truth, now follow."

If you are going to do this faith thing, you're going to need to process, to think, to discern God's will. We can't just follow leaders in lockstep. There are some who say that faith and religion is all about blind obedience. This is the text that shows us that if we are doing faith that way, then we are doing it wrong.